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"City Car Driving" general discussion forum for English users

TOPIC: Such Slow Updating

Re: Such Slow Updating 18 Jan 2014 10:21 #21695

  • David02
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I'm sorry for what I said. I wasn't thinking about what I was saying.
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Re: Such Slow Updating 18 Jan 2014 10:23 #21696

  • simulationdude
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joshlete wrote:
David02 wrote:
Not my fault you're internet isn't very good. My download takes an hour and a half. For your money, you couldn't agent a better car simulator, you sir need to shut your mouth if you don't have anything nice to say.

Not your fault my internet is slow? Are you a moron? Obviously. 1. I get 3mb/s download speeds. And 2. I tried the mirrors and they went slow and/or didn't work either.

Maybe you should learn the difference between criticism and hate. Stop acting like you're a know it all goodie two shoes. You suckup imbred little kid.

How is that for not saying anything nice.
Now Joshlete I know you are new here but we do treat each other with respect. If you do not like what someone else is saying then ignore them. And there was no reason to call someone a moron.
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Last Edit: 18 Jan 2014 10:51 by jericho.
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Re: Such Slow Updating 18 Jan 2014 17:31 #21706

  • Stryder237
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Look people, calm down.

People have their own opinions on things, no need to start an argument.

And the download links are too slow, I think we can all agree. For 1.3.2 when someone did a mediafire link, it took a few minutes to download the same file, compared to a over an hour.
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Re: Such Slow Updating 18 Jan 2014 22:46 #21723

  • Articate
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David02 wrote:
All the devs work their asses of for this game. Just keep it to yourself dude.

I'm just going to have to correct this. One dev working full time on this project would be able to rewrite the entire game in a year. I have come to realize that this isn't a game that is getting the full attention of the developers, in the sense that it seems they have other lines of work, or something. I it very sad, because this game has a lot of potential. There are tons of racing simulators that are being developed, but sadly no other driving simulators. NetKar Pro, EuroTruck Simulator 2, Live For Speed, Assetto Corsa.. The list goes on. Some of these literally have one guy doing everything, and it's frequently updated with amazing amounts of stuff.

I am very upset that this simulator's potential isn't being maximized. It's barely copacetic at this point. It feels like Kivlov holding fort on the forums, while whoever is developing the game does some things occasionally. The whole thing feels very unprofessional, and I wished they'd upped their game after having gotten a fair bit of attention.

However, they're leaving themselves in an extremely vulnerable position, if anyone else decides to do what they're doing. So let's hope someone does, because it would take very little effort to surpass this game's quality, sadly. EuroTruck Simulator 2 is an analogous game, here. It's based around the same type of content, and it has a comparable team size. Yet, the game feels extremely polished, professional and well worked out. The road network easily ten thousand times bigger than that of City Car Driving, has supported left and right hand driving (in Europe and the UK respectively, so geologically based) and left and right-handed cars since release. They also go out to Scandia, Mercedes etc to record the sounds of the trucks they use, has actual licensing deals.

In the time it took City Car Driving to get right-handed traffic, EuroTruck Simulator got an expansion with new trucks and several fully fleshed out countries. It feels more professional, because obviously their developers have developed internal tools, and have built their game around modularity, where they reuse exists and road templates to more quickly make new road. Maybe they've even made their own map editor. At any rate, I'd frankly be surprised if the game's code exists in a subversion system anywhere. I'm happy it exists, but I also hope it's done more professionally in the future, either by this team, or someone else that realizes what a fragile position CCD is in.

Everything just feels dated and unprofessional. From the forums, to the incredibly slow download times, to the fact that a new version of the game means you need to delete your previous version, or the fact that a "minor update" is nearly 400MB. And the fact that we're never updated on when anything happens. It feels like the devs have no respect for us, their customers, and that has me far from wanting to continue to support this game.
Last Edit: 18 Jan 2014 22:48 by Articate.
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Re: Such Slow Updating 19 Jan 2014 04:07 #21732

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I agree, in a way.

ETS 2 does have a map editor that the devs (and modders) use the make maps. ETS 2 got a bigger team when they could afford to as sales skyrocketed. OMSI also experienced similar success-people who would not buy a simulator bought OMSI and ETS 2, and both companies got money!

Kivlov did take suggestions for version 1.3, and there was a short beta test, but 1.3 shipped with lots of bugs. I see poeple who have bought this game for it's intended purpose (learning to drive) saying "My wheel won't work" or "Why are only two cars right-hand-drive?

From the poor English on the website and no information of updates, it does look kinda unprofessional, and it is a very long wait to get two new cars and right-hand-drive.

I know the devs work hard and all, and I appreciate their work and I'm not saying we should all give up support, I'm just pointing out that developers making similar games with similar teams have made more progress than CCD and seem more well-run and professional.

If Kivlov is reading this, can you tell us how many people work on the game, is it full time, do people work on other projects, etc. I don't want to criticize when you have a valid response.
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Re: Such Slow Updating 19 Jan 2014 04:29 #21734

  • simulationdude
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Yes, i agree.
If the dev team doesn't have full time employees then shouldn't they put on the website "HIRING FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES"
My brother in-law is Microsoft certified and has a bachelor degree in Engineering and would defiantly want to work for CCD when he granulates in May. My brother in-law is very good and programming. He knows C++.
Also-
ETS 2 dev team has almost the same amount of developers
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCS_Software
SCS has 20 developers and 20 games
CCD has 10 developers and 2 games
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Last Edit: 19 Jan 2014 04:44 by simulationdude.
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Re: Such Slow Updating 19 Jan 2014 05:36 #21736

  • Articate
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As a professional coder, myself, I just have to point out that the reason why I'm saying there are absolutely no devs working full time on this game, is because of two reasons:

1) If the game's code is very messy, and is spaghetti code, it can take a lot of time to track things down to fix them. However, even then, it wouldn't take this much time
2) If the programmers are completely incompetent, it would take very long time.

Instead, I choose to believe that they aren't incompetent, and that the code isn't that messy. I can feel that it is messy, though. I can just feel it in my veins that the programming decisions that have led the game to where it is, haven't been structured ones.

Anarchy Online, an MMO, is a VAST game probably with 1,000-10,000 times bigger code-base than CCD. I know the only programmer on that project. He's working full time, and he gets incredibly much done, despite the code being a 12 year old soup of crap. If there was even one developer working full time on this project, the bug fixes we've gotten today would've come out two weeks after 1.3.2 came out. I don't know the specifics, though, but in the absence of ANY communication from the devs, I reserve the right to take an educated guess, in lieu of better information.

At any rate, there's no information, and it's lacking to the point that I don't care if there are 20 people working full-time on it, unable to progress, or 1 guy working part time. Too little is happening with the game.


As an investor in other companies, if I were to take on this company, it's obvious that it needs a major overhaul, along with clear communications and a clearer goal of what the functions should be, when they're met, and when this product is "complete". Combine that with better focus on certain aspects, this game could make its market ten times bigger, and even with some special focus on professional use of this, it could become industry leading within a year. It doesn't take more capital than what I hope is already in the company, and there would be easy ways of making the model sustainable.
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Re: Such Slow Updating 20 Jan 2014 15:57 #21797

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Now now, let's not be so quick to compare and criticize, but instead, let's wait for a valid answer from Kivlov. But I do agree with you guys :) .
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Re: Such Slow Updating 20 Jan 2014 22:27 #21825

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I don't mean to rebuke, but this is criticism, and nothing but constructive, at that. If I were part of this company, I'd welcome it, not dismiss it in the await of rebuttal or defense of the points raised. This discussion is outside the warrant of a reply. No matter what the reply, or what size the team is, I will speak up, as a customer. I welcome a reply, but I see no reason to halt our discussion of the way we feel in the mean time. This isn't about what the reply to this will be; it is about how we feel.
Last Edit: 20 Jan 2014 22:30 by Articate.
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Re: Such Slow Updating 21 Jan 2014 17:44 #21860

  • Kivlov
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Wow, wow, wow! What a hot topic! :) Take it easy guys! :)

The progress would go faster if we could to spend all our time on this project only. But we can't.

Things are not just as simple as you draw them in your mind. It's very difficult for small company to survive on the market. It's not enough for us to have only this project to survive. We'd like to spend all our time on this project, but we just can't. We have to work on other projects too - commercial projects, for business, driving schools, goverment, etc. Without them we just bring ourselves to ruin. Other commercial projects allow us to develop and modify the City Car Driving for home users.

- If you're a lone indi-developer - it's ok. You're the only one person, so you have minimum expenses.
- If you're a big corporation - it's also ok. You have millions $ to resolve any issues.
- But if you're a small or middle-sized company, you have serious problems. Your expenses and risks are rather high, and at the same time your chances are low. You have only 2 ways here:

1. Create a genius masterpiece (like the Minecraft for example).
2. Or search for the third-party sponsors.

But if you've made just a good game, but not the masterpiece - you're doomed. Third-party sponsor (like a publisher) is not a very good solution - very often they meddle in the game too deeply, and developers have to change something in a way they don't like it. The quality of the game suffers as a result.

But we've found our own 3rd way - we've found a way to become a self-sponsor for ourselves, but unfortunately it has its own dark side of the coin - it eats our time.
joshlete wrote:
Takes 8 hours to just download 700mb.
We've already set an additional mirror on MediaFire. It should resolve this issue.
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